yes! And the youtube dude that set the internet on fire blasting sealant all over his Bora kitchen.
I heard the same and thought “wow, 4psi!” and then I thought “wow, 4psi…really??!” I don’t doubt it, but I also bet there’s a lot of missing info in that “experiment” that contributed to the low margin and likely a combination of worst-cases and off-spec stuff. If that were the case, and as mentioned up-thread, I’d have thought we’d be seeing a lot more legal and recall action in this space.
This is kind of my point I guess… and I don’t think anyone knows the answer for sure.
Either we will all be going back to hooked in very short order - Or it’s all sort of blown out of proportion.
Like I said, if they’ve really created a slower wheel due to PSI limits AND it’s less safe. Then market demands will force the big guys to switch back
You’re not of those that think Zipp started putting pressure sensors in their wheels, because the people at Sram are a bunch of nice guys?
That’s some Jack Handy shit there dude - other than the gimmick factor, I didn’t think much about it…BUT, for clarity, should I be thinking that it is SRAM’s way of covering their ass in the event of a “blow-off case”?
They will switch back. NO ONE are buying them. The only reason there are even any out in the wild is because they are being forced on people through new bike sales.
Actually, this is certainly my case. 404 setup came with my new bike, which is how I even became aware of the debate at all.
Maybe not intentionally, but that appears to be the outcome. The wheel and tire designers may not have caught the low pressure and wide tire limitations until they were in the field. But, they looked great with mountain bike and gravel tires, so they charged forward with road bike, and here we are.
ENVE’s micro-hook is brand new. And if it is successful - that the UAE team and others with ENVE can run 28mm tires at higher pressure - then ENVE and those teams have a significant performance advantage right now. Every other team has to run 29mm or 30mm tires at a max 72 PSI.
Some of the wheel manufacturers were making a case for low pressures before they had actually tested it on the road. They actually talk about real world testing in their white papers but results were not available when asked for. They were a few months away back then
New to Enve, but micro hooks were used by other manufacturers at least 2 years ago. I spoke to the head of engineering of a wheel company and he explained it was specifically to get the pressures they sought.
Reserve wheels are semi hooked
So how many millions of dollars were spent developing wheels that really aren’t better? At least with the electronic shifting and disc breaks there’s an actual benefit. Especially for those of us over 200lbs.
You know, two facts can be true at once.
Hookless are great. Hookless suck. Both are facts, but it’s the nuance that’s missing. Hookless MTB/Gravel, is great. Hookless road - is a f**king death trap with their 72psi limit. It’s a literal grenade waiting to explode, unless you are riding +30mm tires due to the pressure limit.
Just run 30mm tires you say? My Oma has them on her city bike. Yuck.
i’m kind of out out of the game these days but afaik 29c to 32c is what most of the pro peloton is riding right now in their road stages.
30mm are fantastic, and I highly recommend them. I just put 30mm Vittoria Corsa Pros on my road bike, and I absolutely love them. They make riding so much more enjoyable. They are still pretty fast.
Because they are required to by UCI mandate. Pros cannot run narrower hookless tires, per the the rule to abide by ETRTO specs for hookless wheel & tire systems. The reason ENVE created the micro-hook wheels was so so UAE could run 28mm tires and be in compliance with the UCI.
This is news to me, and I have Reserve wheels. I’ve never compared the hooks to my HED’s or other hooked wheels, but what does semi-hooked mean? Is that something in between ENVE’s new microhooks and standard hooks?
keep it it fun.
And ride higher pressures. The VP of product at Enve was quoted as stating this.
From EC:
According to Jake Pantone, Enve’s VP of product and brand, the project began when UAE Team Emirates asked for a wheel that was lighter than the standard SES 4.5 but still retained its aerodynamic benefits and, importantly, could safely run 28 mm tyres at higher pressures than hookless systems allow. “The team was asking to run 90 psi on 25 mm tyres for TTs,” Pantone explained, “and that led us down the path of exploring ways to increase pressure capability without compromising other performance aspects." That TT development work then trickled down/across to the 4.5 PRO development, with the result the new wheels we see today.
Notice the sequence of things. They were seeking pressure improvements that lead to other things. The 4.5 was not the starting point.
Seems like it to me.
That seems far more correct.
Hookless rims predate rims with bead hooks, so the real answer to the question is probably “tires that aren’t glued or nailed on to the rim”. That’s a different question from “why were bead hooks developed, and should we maybe keep using them for these particular use cases”.
Why would you expect otherwise? Hundreds of wheels is still a very small sample size. Still, it wasn’t exactly an issue that passed notice on here, or on other sites - PSA: problems with enve and certain tires?
I think it’s worth re-posting a piece from this here site back in 2023, in which Slowman solicited Josh’s position on this issue. Absent some of the more inflammatory verbiage, Josh essentially stakes out the same position heard in his podcast, including the boundary conditions that define an appropriate application of tubeless wheel design.
There is very little distance between the overall conclusions of the two parties to this discussion.
you’re sure that UAE is riding 28c? in the road stages? that would surprise me.
